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12/21/2007
Reindeer are a spineless move?
The blogosphere is going crazy with the ongoing Green Bay nativity ruckus. Today’s blasts come in response to Mayor Schmitt’s decision to include a reindeer and a Christmas tree with the nativity scene - which comes in response to advice from The Liberty Council to follow the “plastic reindeer” or the “three reindeer” rule.
The Three Reindeer Rule
The point is that judicial rulings surrounding public displays of the birth of Jesus have established a safety zone for municipalities and state governments: if you include enough Christmas secular stuff in your display, we can find a way to label it as non-religious and hence allowed in the public domain.
So give me a break. The separation of church and state crowd continues to (falsely) clamor for keeping Christianity from touching our public institutions. And because of the constant clamor, the courts have reacted with a red-line test of sorts. And when municipalities then follow that red-line, “three-reindeer” test, the separation of church and state crowd calls it stupid and spineless.
Did the City of Green Bay go about this whole thing in a well thought-out manner? Probably not. Should more nativities be displayed in our front yards and our churches to remind folks of the reason for the season? Probably so. Should a community, if it so desires, include in their Christmas display, a manger, a virgin mother and the holy Christ child? Absolutely.
Freedom Eden says it just right in commenting on Manitowoc, the latest target of the Freedom from Religion Foundation: I can’t imagine making it my life’s work to rid expressions of faith from society…. Why have there been NO other complaints about the display [in 60 years?] Probably because the overwhelming majority of people understand that the Nativity scene in no way threatens their freedom.
Hang in there Manitowoc County Executive Ziegelbauer. Stand tall and tough, Green Bay Mayor Schmitt, Council President Fradette, alderpersons and the many supporters you have in your city. Thanks for taking a stand.
COMMENTS
What has happened in Green Bay is symbolic of exactly why there is and should be a wide separation of religion from public policy and property. The City allowed different faiths/groups to place their symbols there. Some idiot placed an extension ladder against the building and pulled down the Wiccan symbol. So, the ladder climber thought his faith was supreme? The city should have stood firm in their original policy of allowing all expressions in the display. The Wiccan symbol should have been put back or the whole display come down.
dave allen (Fri Dec 21 07:54:26 2007)
That's a ridiculous statement Dave. Public policy must be made on the basis of strong moral character, which from our founders on, has come, in America, from a strong foundation in the teachings of the Christian Bible. Our founders - and leaders throughout the subsequent centuries - thrived through their religous beliefs - religious beliefs that absolutely influenced their political statements and actions.
Jo E. (Fri Dec 21 08:10:23 2007)
I don't believe that Christian societies act more morally than other societies because they are Christians. History has shown that the embodiment of morality to each of us personally and within the law is the key to a moral and just society. Did the Wiccans tear down the Christian symbol? No, quite the opposite. Christian (Christ like) values do not depend on faith.
dave allen (Fri Dec 21 09:04:09 2007)
For purposes of today’s discussion, you can believe whatever you want about Christian societies Dave. (For other purposes, it would be nice to have a tete a tete on faith and salvation someday…) What’s important is an unchanging set of moral beliefs. The “embodiment of morality to each of us personally” is a statement of relativism – and again, not a firm, unchanging foundation offered, for example, by the Christian Bible. None of that calls on me to defend the act of any citizen who violates the law. I’m over and out for the day after 9:30 – won’t be able to post until dinner time!
Jo E. (Fri Dec 21 09:12:42 2007)
AMEN! And MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL!
Ric Van Sistine (Fri Dec 21 09:15:37 2007)
"Did the City of Green Bay go about this whole thing in a well thought-out manner? Probably not."
Amazing. This has been an issue since, oh, about forever; you'd think that the folks running government would have an SOP in place for situations like this.
Half my family isn't Christian* - as far as I know none of them feel threatened by nativity displays or having a priest begin assemblies by praying.
If you are Christian, it's the right thing to do. If you're not, it's part of the culture - like serving milk at dinner, driving on the right and doing the Chicken Dance at weddings.
We've all got better things to worry about.
*that half being Jewish, Buddhist, Wiccan and Atheist.Interesting outlook Brian. Thanks. JE
Brian (Fri Dec 21 11:09:08 2007)
Ditto: Amen and Merry Christmas
Jo I still think you shoould run for Mayor. You would be great. You understand and care about the issues.
Mike (Fri Dec 21 11:30:45 2007)
Heathens greetings.
Sorry I couldn't resist. And it's not even original. I saw it on the back flap of a magazine in the public library.
This topic will likely generate a lot of talk over the weekend and I hope it does.
Christmas, as a tradition, has become a bloated and self-serving orgy of righteousness at one corner, consumer coercion in another and over in the far corner is the alternative faith-based faith bunch. All of these should be brought into question.
How about those inflatable nativity scenes? I haven't seen anything as tasteless since the bathtub grotto-with-virgin fad of the 50's. Putting up a few garden gnomes to offset the Christian influence only adds to the imbecility.
My guess is that the Freedom From Religion and wiccan folk come out at Christmas time not so much to flog their positions but because I and they have had it with the 17 shopping days 'til Christmas countdowns, the covert use of guilt in most Christmas shopping ads to coerce over-spending and the mistaken notion that anyone, anywhere, anytime lives in the Currier and Ives world of Hallmark greeting cards.
I'd suggest using the web to look up a film by Morgan Spurlock, the guy who did "Supersize Me" (which notably featured Appleton Central High School's nutrition program) and find his new piece called "What Would Jesus Buy?" It should be out on dvd after a theater run.
It's just too much. The more sensible or sensitive among us turn off the whole works, refuse to watch commercial television or radio (except for football games) and find print and media which is commercial content free or minimized. You can do it. It takes some amount of will power but once you have unplugged Christmas what remains is something much smaller and assumedly more intimate. The scale is gone. The mass crowds of collective guilt-assuaging in shopping malls is gone and you can get by with a dollar box of greeting cards.
Make your own Christmas Lon. Be happy. Forget the cynicism! I wish you joy and blessings. JE
Lon Ponschock (Fri Dec 21 13:46:26 2007)
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