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3/7/2008
He who sacrifices liberty.....
Enough already. It’s time to pass a smoking ban. I know. Lots of “ban the ban” folks out there. Ye dare not step on personal liberty. Let the market decide – and all of that.
From Rep. Lasee – representing lots of Ben Franklin devotees and libertarians out there:
The right to smoke (or not to smoke) is based on larger issues—an individual’s freedoms. What about those of us, including myself, who have objections to banning public smoking? I object because it is about freedom, personal freedom, more than it is about comfort for ourselves and others. How much should government interfere with what we do on our own time in a private business that serves the public? How can we provide a maximum amount of freedom for both smokers and non-smokers? After all, isn’t that what this is about? Or are they after complete prohibition? (I wonder who will fund their advertising and smoking cessation programs then.)
Don’t consumers have the right to vote with their feet and their wallets? Right now, we have a choice between restaurants that choose to be smoke-free and those that don’t. Smoking should be limited, and not prohibited, in places that serve the public. What I suggest is to let businesses decide if they want to accommodate smokers by creating a smoking room, with a separate air system and no larger than 49% of the building. Then an establishment could accommodate both smokers and non-smokers.
Nope. I stand with Rep. Wieckert (R-Appleton); it’s more than just a personal liberty thing – smoke-free air has become a for-the-public-good type of thing. Add in the incessant whining we all (rightfully) do about controlling health care costs and the public good outweighs this piece of the personal liberty we all cherish. It’s why we don’t drive 100 mph on the freeway just because we want to have a choice. And it’s why we don’t cheat on our income taxes just because we may not agree with having to pay them.
“We create laws in order to protect ourselves and others, and that's exactly what smoke-free laws do.” Lance Armstrong, Tuesday, Monona Terrace.
Yes, this is the camp of those that see the bar and restaurant business growing – even booming – in smoke-free Appleton.
And yes, it’s a slippery slope. Yeah. My job, everybody’s job to fend off the nanny state.
This is not it. Yes, cancer kills.
Senator Majority Leader Decker, Assembly Speaker Mike Huebsch: Stand down.
COMMENTS
Jo-
Well written. I hope your pen gets Decker moving...his staff wouldn't even meet with me regarding this issue.
Kurt Eggebrecht (Fri Mar 07 08:23:49 2008)
NIMBY!
Passing a smoking ban will not stop smokers from smoking. It will simply push the smokers out to the street. You've seen them in downtown Appleton, "the poor huddled masses yearning to smoke free" right outside their place of work or entertainment ... blowing a few puffs near the door before returning to the building.
Guess who gets exposed to their smoke? Those of us walking by!
In my little corner of Northeast Wisconsin, the city has not put such a ban in place and I'm really, really, happy about that. You see, I have a "neighborhood tavern" (their euphemism, not mine) across the fence from my back property line.
If a statewide ban on smoking kicks in, all the folks who are drinking in the bar will come OUT to smoke. Then the smoke won't be filtered through the bar's ventilation system before being exhausted in to the air of the residential neighborhood. READ: They'll be smoking right across the fence from my back yard. More butts on the sidewalk & terrace, more stink in my yard, more noise in our neighborhood, and undoubtedly more beer in the streets.
Please review for me ... A smoking ban is a good deal how?
Jeff Riedl (Fri Mar 07 09:25:59 2008)
Jo, I will start by informing you that I am a non-smoker. Now I am fully aware that smoking is not a healthy habit---but people do lots of things that aren't healthy---just look at how many overweight people are walking the streets---maybe you should concentrate your efforts on banning food, farms, grocery stores, restaurants etc. Perhaps you forgot that smoking most tobacco products are legal in this country---it is not a crime you know!
Seems to me, some of you folks should mind your own business. After reading your editorial, perhaps you, Wieckert and other so-called Republicans should switch parties and vote for Hillary or Obama---seems your ideology regarding a smoking ban might fit best into their agenda.
Also, your analogy with driving 100mph on the freeway and enacting a statewide smoking ban is faulty: If one wants to drive from point a to point b he most likely needs to use the public transportation system---therefore that system needs to be regulated to satisfy the needs of its customers...by the way, that would be all of us. On the other hand, if one wants to partake in a beverage in a smokefree establishment, he can---he goes to an establishment that satisfies the needs of that particular customer--and, if there are no establishments that provide that need, he has the right or freedom to open his own establishment to satisfy that need.
But, if one wants to partake in a beverage and have a smoke, he goes to an establishment that satisfies the needs of that particlar customer--he goes to an establishment that allows smoking. Nobody forces a non-smoker to enter a smoking establishment and nothing forces a smoking customer to enter a non-smoking establishment. Seems you and your ilk want the government to make that decision for others---sounds a bit un-American to me!
paul lauer (Fri Mar 07 15:47:40 2008)
The Republican Party - and conservative wing of the Republican Party - is a big tent Paul. I don't consider myself "you folks..." You're using way too broad a brush. (Grover Norquist's informal coalition works because they follow the 60% rule - each tries to agree with 60% of what another believes - a different 60% for each different relationship.)
Smoking kills Paul. Big time. So, I suppose, does driving 100 mph on public roads.
That all being said, thank you for taking the time to publicly offer your opinion. It's what makes America great.
Jo E. (Fri Mar 07 16:31:07)
There are only two options:
Either A: due to it's health risk factors, illegalize it's sale and use in the same manner as illegal drugs;
Or B: maintain it's legality and preserve business owners' rights to allow or deny it's use on their property.
Your local, state, and federal governments will continue to debate the issue purely for the sake of appearance, but they stand to profit substantially - quite substantially - from the sale of tobacco products. And interestingly, were it not for the FDA mandating the use of certain chemicals in the manufacturing of tobacco products, the health risks would diminish significantly.
A. E. (Fri Mar 07 16:36:14 2008)
Your smoking ban blog left out a major fact that all other articles about the issue never print. The ban is not 100% statewide. There are 11 exceptions in the bill. Do you know what they are? All 11 casinos would be exempt due to sovereign nation status. Two weeks ago on the assembly floor was the state of native Americans speech. They were very proud of the fact that they employ over 35,000 people in the state of Wisconsin.
According to your article, I should not allow smoking in my local corner bar, but my constituents can drive 35 minutes and smoke and drink all night in a casino? That's still 35,000 employees exposed to second hand smoke, not to mention the other thousands of people gambling on a daily basis. Supporters of the ban quote the tavern league as spending big money to stop the smoking ban. But some swords have two sided blades. Check how much money the Native Americans have donated to the American Cancer Society and Smoke-free Wisconsin over the last few years to push a statewide smoking ban. There is no debate that smoking is harmful. But a statewide ban must be 100% statewide.
Rep. Kevin Petersen (Fri Mar 07 20:24:17)
Very interesting Kevin. Thanks. Do Illinois and Minnesota exempt Native American casinos (or anything else Native American) from their statewide smoking bans?
Has there been any attempt to amend out the casino exemption? Can Wisconsin law in this case apply to "sovereign lands?"
Jo E. (Fri Mar 07 20:55:25)
Interesting point about the Casinos. I doubt the state can force them to comply. On the other hand, I also doubt bar patrons will drive 35 minutes to a Casino just to smoke. I give smokers more credit than that. I don't think smoker's addiction (if in fact a particular smoker is addicted) is so powerful to throw all behavior out the window for getting a smoke. Any smokers out there to comment?
dave allen (Sat Mar 08 08:23:48 2008)
I'll take that one. I've smoked mostly on and occasionally off for my entire adult life. Right now I'm mostly off, though I still enjoy my 'party smokes' after Menasha City Council meetings. The partial smoking ban is useless. Yes, I did make decisions about where to drink and dine based on whether I could enjoy a smoke. I know non-smokers who do the same. They won't set foot in a place that permits smoking.
Not being allowed to smoke in a bar never persuaded anyone to quit. A ban gives cover to the owner of an establishment who would prefer not to have smoking in the place. The government can be blamed for the inconvenience to the smoking customer. This is just another manipulation of the so-called free market that has been discussed in other posts.
I do find it interesting that many Republicans are so 'flexible' on this issue, whereas I, a scary Liberal, am rigidly in favor of personal freedom and let the chips fall where they may. If a business wants to be a haven for smokers, I say that's quite literally their business.
Yes, smoking kills some people. And so do lots of other things. Come to think of it, we're all going to die of something someday. We're so death phobic in this society that we're no longer allowed to take simple pleasures in public without some busybody lambasting us with judgments. It's so tiresome.
If we're really serious about getting people to refrain from smoking for health reasons, we should open up free clinics to help them quit and raise the price of cigarettes to East Coast levels ($7 - 10 per pack) to pay for it. I once read that after WWII, destitute Germans would go without food if they could have tobacco instead. Our Army ran on cigarettes - they were never lacking for our soldiers. This indicates to me that quitting is not going to be an option for most people. However, very high prices will reduce consumption of the product and probably keep most youngsters from starting. Then smoking, like snuff, will gradually fade away. A little patience with each other would be beneficial.
Joanne Roush (Sat Mar 08 18:21:31 2008)
for joanne,
Thanks for the comment. A few posts ago there was a concern that if Casinos were unaffected by the ban that local businesses would lose out to a casino (as far as 35 miles). You mentioned how you choose a place to go that does allow smoking. But, would you (or other smokers) drive 35 miles to a Casino just to smoke while having a drink or a meal? I agree by the way with all of your other comments except that I support a statewide smoking ban.
dave allen (Sun Mar 09 09:02:42 2008)
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