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8/5/2009
Listen, Dr. Kagen
Thank you for listening to your constituents yesterday and Monday in Green Bay and Appleton. Listening. The operative word. Unlike media suggestions (your suggestions?), the crowds were not manufactured by shady “corporate interests,” but were caring, frustrated Americans, there to listen to you because they’re desperately fearful about the future of their beloved country – and the future we’re building here for our kids.
I was moved by the passion – and I hope you were too. 300 people filled that auditorium a half hour before your meeting’s start time in both Green Bay and Appleton hearings. Perhaps next time your staff can find you a larger room, so that 300 or 400 constituents need not be locked out.
As an aside sir, it’s interesting that I knew of your meeting schedule from friends and neighbors. In talking with the Steelworkers Union member (the emblem proudly emblazoned on his shirt) sitting behind me, I learned he received an email invitation from your office. You have my email sir, as I’ve contacted your office numerous times. You have my email sir, as I receive pleas for dollars from your campaign committee at the close of every campaign reporting period. Why didn’t I receive a notice of your “listening session” in Appleton?
Such passion Dr. Kagen. I’m not sure you got the message these caring and concerned constituents were sharing.
When asked how you were going to pay for any health care reform bill coming out of Congress, you said you would find $800B - $1T that's currently wasted. Wow. When asked if you will vote for health care reform if the majority of your constituents oppose the bill, you took a big sidestep – “[The final bill] is something that doesn’t exist yet.”
When a constituent said she heard the benefits of the medicine you and Congress are prescribing, now could you please share with us the side effects, you shrugged her off repeatedly, unable to “explain the whole thing because it will raise controversy.” Well, that surely is being honest, Rep. Kagen. Wow.
Rick Sense, writing for his “The Inside Scoop,” shares further goings-on from yesterday’s gathering.
Some of [Rep. Kagen’s] less than stellar moments included a claim that “the United States Senate is the real enemy” and that he believes it is “unconstitutional” for a pharmacy to be able to charge different people different prices for the same medication (ever buy a used car Rep. Kagen?). When asked if he would support healthcare legislation despite the majority of his constituents being opposed to it, he first replied, “Well, let me explain the legislative process to you,” later adding the cliché “these are complex issues” and ending his answer with, “I will vote for the best interest of our constituents.” At one point, obviously frustrated, Kagen yelled at a constituent, “How dare you!” during an exchange with a member of the audience on how to possibly help a different audience member facing the tough prospect of covering healthcare costs with her husband out of work. Yes sir, the majority of your constituents understand the need for reforms in our health care system. But no sir, the majority of your district is not in favor of huge new federal bureaucracies taking over health care in America.
You are well aware of those needed changes sir – and indeed have advocated for them.
- Incentivize self-reliance and individual responsibility. More of us must understand what our health care is costing us before we care about what health care is costing us.
- Incentivize individual responsibility via extensive price and quality transparency.
- Incentivize wellness
- Help us make good choices by standardizing basic health insurance policies
- Support modified community rating and yes, require that insurance be available for those with pre-existing conditions.
Hold your ground sir. You are not beholden to Speaker Pelosi or President Obama or any of your congressional colleagues. You sir, are beholden to us. The majority of your district does not want government running their health care. The majority of your district believes HR 3200 or anything like it must be scrapped and substituted with much more basic changes that will control costs in the system and build on individual – not government – responsibilities.
Jo Egelhoff, FoxPolitics.net
COMMENTS
Admittedly a from left wing site, but the Righties will go bonkers on this: A Right-Wing Mob Is Not a Majority
Jack Lohman (Wed Aug 05 11:17:57 2009)
>>> "... the majority of your district is not in favor of huge new federal bureaucracies taking over health care in America."
Words I'm sure you'd like to believe, Jo, but the majority of Americans support getting the money-grubbing health insurance industry out of health care. Totally. Most would rather not have their health care or those of their loved ones determined by whether or not it brings profits to the industry.
Kagen should not yield to whichever "group" can muster the most people to write letters or bombard his meetings. I'd rather see an unbiased poll, or better, a voter referendum.
As a current Medicare patient I believe, along with 59% of our physicians, that a Medicare-for-all system would be the best solution for the country. Not just the uninsured, but also the companies that are spending $6500 per employee per year and reducing or eliminating their competitiveness with product from other countries. Our US jobs are now going to those countries, and it leaves in its wake not a pretty sight.
Oh, yea, it involves paying for it through our infrastructure (taxes) rather than through product prices or lost jobs. But get over it.
Jack Lohman (Wed Aug 05 09:25:51 2009)
Glad you calmed down Jo, because I understand your people acted like storm troopers and proved that THEY were not there to listen.
Keith Schmitz (Wed Aug 05 10:06:39 2009)
Yes Keith, there were instances of the crowd expressing themselves, which was and is important. At times too, some were disrespectful and you're right - an atmosphere that's not civil is not helpful. Yes, absolutely. But storm troopers? No Keith. No. These are average Joes very concerned about liberty and personal responsibility in America. Overall the morning was indeed civil. Dr. Kagen fielded some tough questions - he provided important insights to some, reverted to hyperbole and spin for others and for still other questions, tellingly addressed them, but did not answer them (specific example: "Just like a prescription for a patient Dr. Kagen, you're telling us the benefits of this legislation, what are the side effects?").
Jo (Wed Aug 05 10:27:30 2009)
"Money-grubbing health insurance industry?"
Mr. Lohman, please.
If you take a look at all of the HMO's in the state of Wisconsin, total up all their premiums and subtract all their claims and expenses, you will find that they net around 1 percent.
If you look at insurance company Total Administrative Expenses nationally, they total about $90 Billion out of $2 Trillion in revenue. That is less than 5 percent.
If you want a non-debatable indicator that Congress has crafted a health care plan that is in the best interests of all Americans and our struggling economy, watch for the one that doesn't exempt Congress, federal employees, and the auto industry labor unions from participation.
Until then, be very, very afraid.
Ray (Wed Aug 05 10:34:53 2009)
I was glad to hear your take on the Appleton gathering with Dr. Kagen. I saw a report about it on the National News. We must continue to communicate with our representatives (as you are doing in Appleton) because the majority of Americans do NOT want Obama's version of health care reform, even those of us out here in liberal California!
Jane Parker (San Diego, Ca.) (Wed Aug 05 10:52:46 2009)
I was there yesterday. Not having gotten to the site until about 9:30AM the doors were shut just before I got there.
When Kagen arrived there were some catcalls but he certainly was in no danger of bodily harm. Just a look at the crowd would tell you that, although I suppose they could have attacked him with their crutches and walkers as there was much white hair in the crowd.
These people are afraid they're going to be the ones most closely involved if we would ever have nationalized (rationed) health care.
All of the countries that have nationialized health care are trying to pull back from it because it does not work. Most of the problems in the health care system now are caused by the government anyhow. As soon as government enters the mix the price goes up.
These countries are also afraid they won't have all the new medical/medicine advances if the U.S. goes to nationalized health, because, believe it or not, it is expensive to research these new medical developments.
I know it's fashionable to pit the "common" people against "big greedy corporations" but you know what, I'd rather have the big greedy corporations taking care of medical concerns than any government. I have recourse against those BGCs but none against the government and those same BGCs don't have a standing army, the FBI, CIA and Secret Service to use against me.
I'm sure this will be scoffed at but the FBI and Secret Service have been at the Tea Parties. They make no effort to conceal their presence from the organizers. Also, I would like to remind you about the assessment put out by the Dept. of Homeland Security (U//FOUO) entitled "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence In Radicalization and Recuitment".
I have my copy right next to me. I keep it there to remind myself what government can do if unchecked.
This is what nationalized health care is - unchecked government.
C.R. Stevenson (Wed Aug 05 11:33:11 2009)
Ray, that 5% number is fantasy. One really should not look at "administrative" costs, which are internal to the insurance companies.
Don't look at global, which includes Medicare, Medicaid and armed services. Look at the bureaucracy that surrounds just the private insurance process. Insurers must offset high CEO and executive salaries and bonuses, high shareholder profits, actuarial fees, gatekeeper costs, marketing costs, broker commissions, and even the lobbying costs and campaign contributions that they must pass on to the patient. That all represents 20% of their "costs," and then you add the "added" billing costs for clinics and hospitals (some of which would stay anyway), and the several hours per day physicians have to fight the nurse-gatekeepers and you've reached 31% of bureaucray costs that should instead be spent on providing health care to patients.
But I agree with your last comment: A Medicare-for-all system MUST also cover government employees.
Jack Lohman (Wed Aug 05 11:35:24 2009)
>>> "All of the countries that have nationalized health care are trying to pull back from it because it does not work."
That's hogwash, C.R.. Read A Canadian doctor diagnoses U.S. healthcare.
It is absolutely true that the health insurance industry is trying to break into Canada, but Canadians don't want them. And when Taiwan traveled the world studying every system available, they went home and duplicated Medicare. For everybody. Everybody in and nobody out.
But let's be clear about one thing: if Medicare or even your private insurer refuses to pay for something, there is absolutely no law preventing you from buying it on the outside, the good old-fashioned way, with cash dollars. And there is nothing to prevent the industry from expanding its "supplemental insurance," which I currently pay for.
Jack Lohman (Wed Aug 05 12:03:21 2009)
The good doctor (and I use this loosley) REFUSES Medicare patients. Will physicians have the "right" to refuse govt. backed health plans also?
And then (IF) where will those patients go? Perhaps we should de-certify (take away the license) of any physician refusing to provide care? Wonder what the good congressman would say to that?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???????????
Steve Wells (Wed Aug 05 16:43:42 2009)
Steve, if we have a single payer and their only provider is Medicare, I doubt that they'll turn away 100% of patients. But if so, we also need plumbers. You might be interested in this doctor's story on why she left medical practice because of the private insurers.
(And no, I'm not a Kagen supporter.)
Jack Lohman (Wed Aug 05 16:59:51 2009)
This is a quote from Ezekiel Emanuel (brother to President Obama's chief of staff and one of the president's senior health-care policy advisors)I found interesting:
"Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely "lipstick" cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change." Health Affairs, February 27, 2008
Patricia McNaughton (Wed Aug 05 17:55:58 2009)
I meant to post two quotes from Ezekiel Emanuel. This is the second:
"Every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health-care reform agenda. If automakers want a bailout, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration's health-reform effort." Health Care Watch, November 16, 2008
Patricia McNaughton (Wed Aug 05 18:00:17 2009)
Patricia, the current House bill is indeed not good, and when you see an industry like insurance giving politicians $46 million you can be assured that what results will be bad for the public. Though I don't think Ezekiel Emanuel understands what "waste" really is.
But that the industry has been able to stack the right against the left is typical strategy. Divide and concur. So far they are winning, and so far the right and left are losing.
Jack Lohman (Wed Aug 05 19:34:15 2009)
"there was much white hair in the crowd."
Uh, Mr. Stevenson, don't you find it odd that white-haired people who sign up for government-run health care are protesting the concept of government-run health care?
Northern Pike (Wed Aug 05 22:22:03 2009)
So, the TRUTH of the matter is that congress and the President ARE advocating for a single payer? As typical, political types are speaking from both sides of their mouth (isle).
I can't understand the obsession for decimating an entire health care system over what amounts to at maximum 15% of the population wanting.
Do we need reform? Yes. Am I greatful this has come to the forefront? (which it never did under a total republicrat rule) Yes.
Are MOST people happy with the health care they receive? Yes.
But the power hungry folks interested in further controling my life are in my face and I intend to be in theirs.
Take the 15% and put them in Medicare and let them pay a premium for it. I am under NO obligation to provide for nor guarantee health care for anyone other than my own.(and family)
Steve Wells (Thu Aug 06 07:07:35 2009)
Good idea Steve. I have long advocated letting citizens and businesses buy into the Medicare system at cost, making it a zero addition to taxpayer costs. But the insurance industry doesn't like that a bit, and they are the ones funding the elections.
Jack Lohman (Thu Aug 06 10:10:42 2009)
Jack,
I believe Emanuel's point, based on a reading of works he has authored or co-authored dating back many years, is to use these issues to obtain (duplicitously) what he perceives as the need for a fundamental change in the way medical care is delivered and, indeed, the very nature of the doctor/patient relationship as well as how we “measure” the value life.
My point was Emanuel, as a senior health-care policy advisor and brother of the president’s chief of staff, he would not have accepted the position if he did not believe it would advance his long-held beliefs.
If you are familiar with his writings, you might agree that what you believe the insurance companies are doing pales when compared to what Emanuel would like to do to medical care.
Patricia McNaughton (Thu Aug 06 11:42:00 2009)
Patricia, I voted for McCain and believe that Obama has blown it in a number of areas. But so have the conservatives with their opposition to a single-payer healthcare system.
Aside from extending health care to 100% of the people and relieving businesses of a burden that costs them 15% of wages, it would return corporations and jobs to the US economy. And NOTHING is going to improve until we get our jobs back.
But the right wingers have only one word in their vocabulary, "taxes." And I say "get over it!" We must do what is in the best interest of the nation, and even if it did increase taxes it would be well worth it. We are all paying for the health care system anyway, one way or the other, but instead let's pay through infrastructure.
But that's the left wing side of me talking.
Jack Lohman (Thu Aug 06 12:03:44 2009)
demonkats amd Kagen are on the news TODAY proclaiming that all the folks who disagree with them are shills for some mythical organization. Kagen stated in a news blip that the insurance industry is behind the opposition he's experienced in these alleged "town hall" meetings. It was fascinating to hear the advertisement that played in the next segment of the news proclaiming the "conspiracy" opposition to govt. run health insurance, paid for by the D.N.C. !!!!!!!!
Talk about the pot calling the kettle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve Wells (Thu Aug 06 14:27:31 2009)
Jack, I agree that MIDDLEMEN (whether private insurers OR government) are a problem. But, as someone who lived with a "national health care" system for 15 years, let me warn you to be careful, as you might get what you wish for!
As to the choices we currently have, I'd rather face a Rottweiler (big bad insurance company) than a 30,000-acre raging forest fire (government).
emily matthews (Fri Aug 07 16:29:27 2009)
Jack, here's an excerpt from an article that cites FACTS not emotions:
"On May 13, 2009, the Medicare Trustees warned that the fund they tap to pay for beneficiaries’ hospital care will be insolvent by 2017 — two years earlier than trustees had predicted the year before. The program has been paying out more than it collects in taxes and interest since last year, in part due to a recession well underway.
Medicare would have to deposit $13.4 trillion — $1 trillion higher than last year’s estimate — into an interest-earning account today in order for the hospital fund to pay its scheduled benefits over the next 75 years. The program’s total unfunded obligation, which includes doctor and prescription drug benefits, is $37.8 trillion. The trustees estimated that in coming years, Medicare spending will rise faster than workers’earnings or the economy as a whole."
emily matthews (Fri Aug 07 18:31:38 2009)
Yea, Emily, and I suppose this has nothing to do with the Medicare $780 billion drug giveaway program passed by Bush in 2003, who later claimed "Oh, Medicare is going broke." Or the stranglehold the Pharma industry has on congress who now claims to want to phase out the donut hole over 14 years.
Phase it out? How about eliminating it? Today, not 14 years from today? Or eliminating the drug program altogether and let docs write scrips for the druggist to fill and Medicare to pay? At half the cost!!!
You know, I'm sure getting tired of this "deficit crap." We need to (a) get politicians off the payroll of industry so they do not give away taxpayer assets, and (b) we must INCREASE taxes to pay for legitimate infrastructure!!!
Even if it moves our 35% max closer to Sweden's 50% max, it's about time we get off this anti-tax kick.
Jack Lohman (Sat Aug 08 03:19:47 2009)
Lets see
Veterans Hospitals ..failing to provide adequate services..remember 2007?
Medicare .. and Medicaid and BO said they have so much waste in them he can pay for the new health care program using "That" money
Both Government programs with a history of ????
Now we want number three..
Notice the health program that Congress enjoys, never has a cost ?
Ever wonder about it ?
Nice to know what that is , because it is 100 % controlled by the Government
It could be compared to "private " insurance for the past 10 years.
Rich
Rich Carlstedt (Sun Aug 09 21:28:21 2009)
Rich, the VA is failing to provide adequate services because they have been overwhelmed by Iraqi vets and they have not expanded fast enough to handle them. And Medicare is in trouble primarily because of Bush's $781 billion giveaway to the drug industry. Aren't politicians great?
Jack Lohman (Mon Aug 10 06:21:54 2009)
And on the VA system you should see this article, which admittedly was written before the high influx from Iraq.
Jack Lohman (Mon Aug 10 07:31:56 2009)
If you take a look at all of the HMO's in the state of Wisconsin, total up all their premiums and subtract all their claims and expenses, you will find that they net around 1 percent.
Ray, please.
1% may be all that's left - but what is the ratio of claim payments to expenses? Therein lies the reason WE call the "insurance" providers money-grubbing.
The insurance companies hire an army of employees to find legal ways to say no when a claim arises. How is the individual supposed to fight the insurmountable resources of these corporate behemoths? We can't. So they take our money and don't pay it out when we need it.
I don't trust the Feds any more than the insurance weasels, so I'm not a fan of nationalizing this system either.
Whenever you insert a third party in a transaction, money that could be used for the transaction ends up in the third party's hands. That's the plain and simple truth of business.
Why not establish a direct connection between patients and their doctors? Hire a health care "group" on retainer. We could pay a monthly fee to the doc's group and they provide the needed care to our family. If we're not satisfied, we can start paying the doc across the street.
The doc doesn't need nearly as many staffers in their office to wrangle with the insurance company's "army of no", the patient has the advantage of being able to make their own choices, and without the third party involvement - the whole thing can be delivered at substantially lower rates.
Jeff Riedl (Mon Aug 10 08:22:56 2009)
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