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8/23/2010
Public employees - get real?
I continue to believe public sector employees need a reality check – and that wage freezes and furloughs are a very understandable response to massive cutbacks in jobs, wages and compensation packages across the country.
One of the responses to my Thursday inquiry “How tough should an Appleton wage freeze be?” included this from an understandably interested municipal employee.
I work for a city in the Fox Valley, and yes I’m one of those public, union employees. I’m more then willing to post my wages and benefits if anyone else that thinks we are over paid post their wages and benefits. By the way I have a degree in environmental sciences and I am state certified so I ask you what do you think a fair wage is?
I appreciate this FoxPol reader’s interest and sincerity. I appreciate his belief in himself, and I appreciate his apparent dedication to his work.
I don’t appreciate his apparent belief that because he has a degree and is state certified that he remain immune from the tremors of economic upheaval that continue to roil American workers and their families.
Why are public sector union workers exempt from economic reality? Well, because there is no bottom line. You, the taxpayer, are an unlimited source of funds.
Yesterday’s news was that Harley-Davidson may close its plant in Tomahawk if they don’t get concessions from union workers. They simply must lower their manufacturing costs – and lo and behold, other states' workers are willing to help. It’s a story repeated over and over in the past 30 months.
How many friends do you have who have had their incomes frozen or even drastically reduced – or eliminated all together?
Given that the free market doesn’t work efficiently in the public sector, how do taxpayers best determine a fair wage?
How about looking at how many workers – workers that could perform capably and well – would like this man’s job? Or when the municipality – or county or state or school district – must cut employees because the union won’t agree to a wage freeze, whose job will go?
Jo Egelhoff, FoxPolitics.net
P.S.: It’s well past time someone (the Fox Cities Chamber?) in the Fox Cities does an extensive, reliable comparison of public and private sector wages and total compensation. It’s not an easy chore, not easy comparisons to make – but it can be done.
COMMENTS
Yes, I agree, and some of those public employees are my friends. Indeed they should take a hit similar to those in the private sector, but they should not be unfairly targeted.
And I ask the right wingers (Jo?), isn't it about time we start reducing the wages of the bankers and other CEOs and elites? Shouldn't we give shareholders (you know, the owners) of companies a binding vote on CEO salaries and benefit packages? Or do these yokels have us over a barrel?
Jack Lohman (Mon Aug 23 08:33:09 2010)
I concur on the need for more data on comparisons of government compensation.
Jo, you've done a good job highlighting the gratuitous pension abuse too. Government pension plans are *assuming* returns of 7.5% - 8.5% in determining 'underfunded/overfunded' status. Your readers are savvy enough to understand that in a 'zero interest rate policy' (ZIRP) world, with 30 year treasuries paying <5%, and very little in the investment grade bonds paying anywhere near that, the taxpayers will be tapped heavily to add assets to the plans to make sure our 55 year old government retirees are assured their leisure.
If you'll permit a bit of polemics here, the only exception to my general 'no new taxes' rule is the an internal revenue measure. Assume a 70% surtax on all income from any public pension plans to re-fund the pension plan. Will it clear the state deficit or fully fund the pension plan? Nope. But it will salt the leeches and drive them from retiring -and voting themselves continued largess- in Wisconsin.
Brian Heyer, CPA (Mon Aug 23 08:46:16 2010)
Jo:
Actually, I think that is a great idea that the Chamber look into comparing local government jobs to comparable jobs in the private sector.
Several years ago, when I was on the County Board, I conducted a study of County jobs with comparable jobs in the private sector(ie maintenance, clerical, administrative hourly positions). At that time(over six years ago), the study showed that actual wages, without benefits, were $1.50-$2.00 per hour higher than like jobs in the private sector. If you included the benefit costs, which averaged 48% of actual wages, the difference was even greater.
I utilized data from the regional MRA and the annual Chamber wage and salary data to make the comparisons.
I don't know if the Chamber still does that, but it would be an interesting study to compare wages and benefits between the public and private sector.
Dealing with facts is much better than making assumptions by emotion.
Keep pushing for that study because we really would like to know.
Mike
Mike Thomas (Mon Aug 23 10:37:34 2010)
Jo,
How low are you suggesting municipal and teachers go? People with equal education often make a lot more money in industry.
However industry people work many more hours. I understand that. But then industry workers do not spend hours and hours every evening correcting math papers and drawn smiley faces.
The entire education industry needs to be reorganized. More para professionals and less teachers are needed. Why is an $80,000 professional drawing smiley faces?
David (Mon Aug 23 10:46:40 2010)
You'd really like to know, and you'd like "the Chamber" to tell you the correct information? Wow!
Jack Lohman (Mon Aug 23 10:46:56 2010)
The govt unilaterally gives money away to the public jobs.
The govt is considering legislation of the N word.
The govt in Wisconsin has their nose in the naming of school mascots.
BUT, now we have Kimberly teams named the Papermakers. And there is no paper being made in Kimberly. The representatives serving the Kimberly area should be working tirelessly to get the mill running. Instead they are wasting their time giving money away and naming mascots.
David (Mon Aug 23 10:59:03 2010)
Jo,
I didn’t say I should be immune from the tremors of economic upheaval. What I was saying is I am educated and licensed, and with that what do you and your readers believe is a fair wage. Most people on your site talk about wage freezes or cuts for public employees and they don’t even know what I make that’s the sad part. Like I said before I will full disclose all wages and benefits if you and any of your readers do the same.
joe
joe (Mon Aug 23 19:18:48 2010)
I appreciate your comment Joe. Please note that I noted the need for a serious study comparing private and public sector total compensation. Difficult to compare some jobs, but this type of study has been done reliably, credibly in other parts of the country. Not cheap to do, but critical nonetheless. Perhaps together we can recruit sponsors to get such a study done.
Jo (Mon Aug 23 19:28:28 2010)
Jo this is more about federal rather than state or local policy but the general idea still stands.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/opinion/23krugman.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Krugman;
***We need to pinch pennies these days. Don’t you know we have a budget deficit? For months that has been the word from Republicans and conservative Democrats, who have rejected every suggestion that we do more to avoid deep cuts in public services and help the ailing economy.
But these same politicians are eager to cut checks averaging $3 million each to the richest 120,000 people in the country.
What — you haven’t heard about this proposal? Actually, you have: I’m talking about demands that we make all of the Bush tax cuts, not just those for the middle class, permanent....
So, for example, we’re told that it’s all about helping small business; but only a tiny fraction of small-business owners would receive any tax break at all. And how many small-business owners do you know making several million a year?
Or we’re told that it’s about helping the economy recover. But it’s hard to think of a less cost-effective way to help the economy than giving money to people who already have plenty, and aren’t likely to spend a windfall.
No, this has nothing to do with sound economic policy. Instead, as I said, it’s about a dysfunctional and corrupt political culture, in which Congress won’t take action to revive the economy, pleads poverty when it comes to protecting the jobs of schoolteachers and firefighters, but declares cost no object when it comes to sparing the already wealthy even the slightest financial inconvenience.***
It makes sense for a impartial study to compare public versus private pay. I suspect that the difference is not that great for many. What if we included CEO pay?
Dean Weichmann (Mon Aug 23 19:38:32 2010)
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