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9/30/2010
Kagen not worried about tax hikes for you and me
Representative Kagen, trailing in a recent GOP poll 49 – 37%, apparently isn’t worried about the impact of January tax hikes on his constituents.
Thirty-nine Democrats — most in tight election races — broke ranks to oppose a motion to adjourn the House before acting on the George W. Bush-era tax rates scheduled to sunset at year’s end.
The vote came after House Republican Leader John Boehner (Ohio) declared that a vote to adjourn for the campaign trail was akin to “a vote to raise taxes.”
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was forced to cast a rare vote that accounted for the margin of victory for Democrats, who prevailed 210-209 on the motion.
Kagen wasn’t one of them.
Jo Egelhoff, FoxPolitics.net
COMMENTS
Tax hikes? So, if there was a bill passed that took the federal tax rate to zero for people earning over $250,000 taxable income and then a year later the bill had a sunset provision that would be a tax hike? Come on. The last time this country had a surplus was when the wealthiest citizens paid a higher rate than they do now and that rate was reduced and look what happened. Immediate deficits. Labeling this a tax hike is an excuse. We need revenue and the people who were relieved of that responsibility 10 years ago need to step up to the plate and pay.
dave allen (Thu Sep 30 07:41:17 2010)
Just watch the votes Kagen casts after he loses to Ribble.
The sight of the lame duck Congress passing bill after bill, knowing Obama will veto any attempt to repeal their legislative piracy, will be akin to the sight of looters trashing businesses after a hurricane. And I'm good with that.
The Tea Party rallies aren't going away anytime soon. As the liberals prove who they really are they just move the Democrats closer to the abyss and show the Republicans that poor behavoir in office begets poor election results.
Duke (Thu Sep 30 07:47:02 2010)
Here's the problem, Dave:
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/spending-v-revenue-cut.jpg
It's not the lack of taxation, now, is it.
Keynesian economics doesn't work, Dave.
Duke (Thu Sep 30 07:52:52 2010)
Dave is exactly right. Obama wants to restore the tax cuts for the 98% lower and middle-wage earners and Boehner (and the right-wing Heritage) want to also include the top 2% and are holding the 98% hostage. Thanks Republicans (and the few Dems that are also in the pockets of the Fat Cats).
Oh well, giving the top 2% the break adds only $700 billion to the deficit.
When are the "conservatives" going to learn? Or perhaps they already have and like it the way it is.
And Duke, it is EXACTLY spending!!! Politicians spend money because THEY ARE PAID TO spend money. Get over it.
Jack Lohman (Thu Sep 30 09:13:17 2010)
Dave, who does my money belong to? Me. I earned it. I own it. And the federal government claims as its own 25% of my personal property, which I can neither spend nor invest - nor save. So, I don't make any investments. And I don't consume much, either.
Guy down the street makes 7 or 8 times more than I do. Who does his money belong to? Him. And the federal government claims as it's own 35% of his personal property, which he can niether spend nor invest, nor save.
It's perfectly fair that the guy down the street makes gobs more than myself. He earned it, I didn't. I'm quite alright with that. But I fail to understand how it is at all fair that the federal government should claim as its own a higher percentage of his earnings than my own. Where is the equality in that?
You want revenue, let the wealthy spend or invest in companies that can then afford growth, which creates jobs, which generates tax revenue. Or let them save it in a bank, which can then lend to companies that can then afford growth, which creates jobs, which generates tax revenue.
Oh. And just like I've got to adjust my household budget downward to adjust for what I can actually afford - that's called cutting my budget - probably worth considering at the federal level.
It's not fair to call it a tax hike? Does that mean you don't hike up your drawers if you've let them down?
Andrew Ellis (Thu Sep 30 09:21:52 2010)
>>> "...let the wealthy spend or invest in companies that can then afford growth, which creates jobs, which generates tax revenue."
Or Andrew, let them invest where the growth is... in India and China where they've managed to keep their wages at one-tenth ours, and they've paid off our politicians to pass laws favorable to out-sourcing jobs, or they can simply save their money in off-shore tax havens!!!
I get it now.
Jack Lohman (Thu Sep 30 09:34:51 2010)
BYE BYE steve. You have been consistent in voting against the will of your former district. You had the deciding vote to cut taxes and you chose to Raise them!!!!210 to 209 WOW. Time to repeal steve and replace with Reed Ribble!!!!!!
Jay Schroeder (Thu Sep 30 09:50:10 2010)
OK.... the tax hike for over $250k is the marginal tax rate. These people still get the benifit of the lower marginal rate too. For that matter the rich get to take advantage of lots of tax credits or deductions that the rest of us do not. Isn't the capital gains at 15%? The rich should be taxed more.
Rather than this rediculus idea called trickle down economics how about the opposite, trickle up economics?
>>>You want revenue, let the wealthy spend or invest in companies that can then afford growth, which creates jobs, which generates tax revenue. Or let them save it in a bank, which can then lend to companies that can then afford growth, which creates jobs, which generates tax revenue.<<<
You want revenue, let the poor work and earn money that they will spend and businesses will benefit. The stimulus for infrastructure and public works creates jobs when private business is too timid (for good reasons) to expand.
Dean Weichmann (Thu Sep 30 09:53:49 2010)
Dean, you are exactly correct. Instead of sending people $300 per week to stay unemployed we should be putting them on the government's payroll for $10/hr for 20 hours a week. Sweeping or shoveling sidewalks, working in county hospitals, whatever. Just work and learn new skills until you find a job!
Jack Lohman (Thu Sep 30 11:11:18 2010)
Good God! When in God's name did it become the government's job to keep people employed? Dean, you're saying steal from Peter to pay Paul so he can buy from Peter. So Peter benefits how? By the time his money comes back to him, a pretty good portion of it is lost to taxes in the process. No one comes out ahead but the Government. And don't say it's not stealing. Whose money is it, precisely, that the government has to take - particularly when it's completely broke? That's right. Someone else's.
And China? Cut the inhumane communist country off! Why are we doing business with a nation that MANDATES child murder as a matter of public policy?!
Andrew Ellis (Thu Sep 30 14:24:04 2010)
>>>Good God! When in God's name did it become the government's job to keep people employed?<<<
So Andrew... is it governments only job to make the rich richer?
Even that misses the point, even the rich are better off if the poor are not idled because of inept policy.
Jack makes a good point, why not employ the unemployed to do jobs that improve our environment?
Dean Weichmann (Thu Sep 30 17:04:13 2010)
Dean, because the role of government - specifically the constitutional form of government ratified by the sovereign states and as intended by the founders - is not to employ people. It is to govern.
Check out http://mises.org/
Subcribe to Mises Daily. Search. Read. Think. Study. Understand.
Aside from the clear dangers -as history bears- of the government creating jobs for which there is no market demand (like the oodles of roundabouts replacing perfectly functional traffic intersections), the fairest "distribution of wealth" is to let the demand for products/services (ie. shoveling sidewalks) dictate the market to the private sector, which is more than capable - if only for capital and free of costly and burdening administration to keep up with beaureaucratic regulatory red tape - of supplying that demand and doing so profitably for both employer and employee.
Andrew Ellis (Thu Sep 30 22:51:19 2010)
What Andrew is saying Dean, is that he wants a free-for-all style of government. Zero regulations. He's got his, and everybody else must get theirs or starve. We are no longer in this together.
Jack Lohman (Fri Oct 01 00:48:12 2010)
>>>Subcribe to Mises Daily. Search. Read. Think. Study. Understand.<<<
Tell you what Andrew, I will read Mises Daily for a week if you read Krugman for a week. Think,study,understand.
Let me know if it's a deal. There will be a test.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
Dean Weichmann (Fri Oct 01 07:27:29 2010)
" Politicians spend money because THEY ARE PAID TO spend money. Get over it."
Well I guess I can agree with that if we clarify a very significant point. Maybe the statement is correct with regards to 'Politicians', but I would prefer to elect a legislative representative rather than a politician.
My vote will be for a representative who understands that I'm sending them to Washington to do what's right for the country, what's consistent with the constitution, and what (whenever possible) represents the will of the majority of their constituents.
Elected REPRESENTATION, not elected SPENDERS.
Jeff Riedl (Fri Oct 01 07:31:55 2010)
Jeff, that's wishful thinking. I'd love it if you were right, but special interests give money because it works. Our railing on our representatives will not alter the dynamics. Frankly, I've quit writing to my reps.
Jack Lohman (Fri Oct 01 08:00:08 2010)
Well, Jack, I'm with you on the waste of time writing to some reps. There are some that listen and some that simply need to be replaced on election day.
One can usually tell the difference based on the elected officials' interpretation of a listening session. Those who listen to the voters - then make their decisions on principle are worth the time necessary to 'petition with our grievances'.
Those who believe a listening session is intended to give voters an opportunity to listen to their pontification ... well, they will only 'hear us' by way of the ballot box.
IF we don't speak (in both manners), though, they will NEVER hear us and our vision of the way things SHOULD be will never come to fruition.
Jeff Riedl (Fri Oct 01 10:01:57 2010)
Jack, total misrepresentation of what I am saying. Sure you don't want to write campaign ads for career politicians?
I don't have mine. I'm trying. But when I get it, it's mine. And I expect others to get theirs. And when I do, and when they do, I expect us each to follow the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity, and give of our own free will and volition to those of our own choosing who are still having a hard time getting theirs.
I repeat: I don't have mine. And on principle, I do not want to get mine from government-sanctioned, government-organized theft.
You want socialism, leave this country. We have a Constitutional Republic. And if that means nothing to you, welcome to chaos, because anything goes.
Dean, I'll take you up on that. Krugman's blog is bookmarked.
Andrew Ellis (Fri Oct 01 11:13:24 2010)
Andrew, I read "Regime Uncertainty and Bond Yields" but found it difficult to understand, I seem to have to interpret the terms or spend a lot of time looking them up. This guy seems to speak another version of English than I do.
I am not gonna read all posts each day, just one, I don't have time for more.
Krugman writes for the layman most of the time.
Dean Weichmann (Fri Oct 01 15:31:57 2010)
By the way I share the distaste for rounabouts but I looked it up a little. Seems that at least one study shows that they reduce fatal accidents at intersections by 90%. Maybe I will get used to them eventually.
Dean Weichmann (Fri Oct 01 15:37:46 2010)
I like roundabouts. In our area one replaced a 4-way stop intersection and totally eliminated the 5pm bottleneck. They have my vote, though they are surely more expensive.
Jack Lohman (Sat Oct 02 01:19:14 2010)
You guys are having a spirited debate. I appreciate it. Must side most often with Andrew and Duke, as you'd expect I suppose. There are several pieces out there on why raising taxes won't fix the deficit. The issue is spending, as Jack and Andres ably point out. And economic models that don't take into consideration the response of the taxed to hither taxes. But... I don't have time at the moment to compare all the research and commentary - eeek. Thank you all for your research and commentary...
Jo (Sat oct 02 8:44:54 2010)
Jo, I am not an economist but I have been interested in macroeconomics for a while now. The deficeit can be reduced through increased revenue, (tax rate times income),reduced spending (less military would be my preferance), and by inflation and time. All of these factors count. Reducing tax rates will only reduce revenue.
Dean Weichmann (Sat Oct 02 12:43:56 2010)
I didn't say exactly that, Jo. I said "... it is EXACTLY spending!!! Politicians spend money because THEY ARE PAID TO spend money." That means that the problem IS AND ONLY IS a corrupt political system. As a wanna-be politician I'm sure you don't want to hear that, but that's the way it is.
Jack Lohman (Sat Oct 02 13:00:31 2010)
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