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fox cities news, appleton, wi fox cities news, appleton, wi
Today's Blog: Time for the Guv to morph into Chris Christie
My husband and I and a couple hundred friends watched in Green Bay as ...(more)

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  • Time for the Guv to morph into Chris Christie (6/28/2011)
  • Time for Gov. Walker to talk more about the cake (3/4/2011)
  • Today, reality hits home (3/1/2011)
  • FoxPolitics News going on hiatus (1/28/2011)
  • Brown County Executive candidate forum Feb. 8 (1/28/2011)
  • Education done right (1/27/2011)
  • To Obama, the ‘We’ is Government (1/27/2011)
  • (more)



    1/3/2011
    Carlstedt: Time for WI to stop spending $s on 4K

    Last week, Senator Grothman called on Governor-elect Walker to immediately announce discontinuance of the state policy encouraging four-year-old kindergarten – and deleting corresponding funds from the upcoming state budget.
    For the past 15 years, Wisconsin has encouraged adopting four-year-old kindergarten by allowing school districts as much revenue authority for a four-year-old as they have for their more costly to educate high school students. Last year four-year-old kindergarten programs cost this state $140 million in state tax collections and cost local property taxpayers another $82 million.

    It is important for Governor Walker to make it clear that the days of encouraging four-year-old kindergarten are at an end so local districts can plan accordingly.
    In response to Senator Grothman’s news release, Green Bay resident and active Brown County Taxpayers Association member Rich Carlstedt expressed his approval by way of his experience with the Green Bay School District.
    Dear Senator Grothman:
    As a member of the Brown County Taxpayers Association, and during these past 4 years, as chairman of the Education Subcommittee for our group, I have become quite familiar with school funding and issues pertinent to their operation. As such, I have been in the forefront in Green Bay in addressing the misuse of Taxpayer funds and State Budgets by our school districts.

    I applaud your letter to Scott Walker and I do hope he takes your request seriously and would like to point out helpful 4K facts that may assist your efforts to remove this gross miscarriage of funding.

    First, the Federal Government funds a program for youngsters that need help. It is called Headstart. The cry for help for such an age group should be addressed by this program, however the schools have found a cash cow in Wisconsin’s 4 K Budget and can make extra funds this way.

    Second, rather than looking to Arkansas, (or Georgia, who admit that the 4K program is a failure), we can look right here in Wisconsin. Three years ago I challenged Dan Nerad, the Green Bay Superintendent at that time, when he said, “early education promotes advancement of learning .“
    “We do not need to look at studies from other communities, when we have the information right here in Green Bay! 8 years ago, we went from ½ day kindergarten to full day, and yet subsequent grade test scores failed to reflect the additional education time… in fact, scores are decreasing which is proof that extending hours does nothing.”
    The charge went unanswered.

    Third, I have to say that you left a very large arrow out of your quiver, as your financial equation is not correct for 4 K.

    While I feel that $9,900 is closer, let’s use your $9,000 number, it is fine for expressing costs. To get funding for a student, he is counted as one FTE ( full time education) to get the 9K. 4K students however get a kicker. For 13 ¼ hours per week they are counted as .6 FTE ( .5 if less than 13 ¼). So 4 year olds are given a morning class, followed in the PM with another 4 year old. Those two half day students count as (2 x.6) 1.2 FTE or in cash terms, they bring in $10,800 to the district.

    But wait, it gets better……they only need to be in school for 4 days (!) So you have a 20 % bonus in funds, followed by a 20 % reduction in class room utilization and teacher time. Sweet deal!

    Never forget, that unlike upper grades, there is no homework or tests to score during free time. The schools will say that they use the teachers to communicate with parents on the fifth day. We have no proof this occurs, and let me remind you that school districts like Green Bay have a very large number of case workers and social workers for such activities.

    What I find incredible is that Tony Evers, the WDPI Superintendent, in his recent “budget recommendations” wanted to increase the use of extra credit like this in the FTE category for other students. This weighting is nothing more than cash give-away in a system already weakened by cash drain.

    Lastly, for lots of information on 4K studies, the Reason Foundation is a great resource.

    Thank you for listening and I do hope , for the benefit of Wisconsin, that the sham of 4K is disposed of. The least that should happen, is that the taxpayers of the school district, be allowed to vote on whether they wish to have such a program, and that it be funded 100 % by local taxes. Only then would the purveyors of 4K be held accountable for results, which I doubt even exist.

    Rich Carlstedt
    Green Bay
    Jo Egelhoff, FoxPolitics.net




    COMMENTS

    Carlstedt is right on. There is no emperical data available that 4K helps. There is one group that benefits from 4K. WEAC! At $700-800 per year in membership fees the teachers of 4K provide a great boost to WEAC.

    We need more people like Carlstedt.
    I would like to meet him.

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    David (Mon Jan 03 08:11:17 2011)

    Let's see now...($140m $82m)/55m=$4

    So it costs four dollars per capita a year to provide kindergarden.

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Dean Weichmann (Mon Jan 03 08:44:45 2011)

    Yea, Dean, that's a real killer. Forget that it has been proven that pre-school has increased the education level of kids attending, and employers are calling for more immigration of educated workers. No wonder our kids don't make the cut.

    Well, so what. We need that $4 to pass to projects that favor campaign contributors. live with it!

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Jack Lohman (Mon Jan 03 08:59:17 2011)

    And incidentally, kindergarten allows mothers to work and pay taxes. Would they be better off unemployed?
    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Jack Lohman (Mon Jan 03 10:05:08 2011)

    Dean, Your numbers are fun. And then how many dollars per capita through grade 16?

    Who will take care of the kids? There moms and dads, babysitters, grandparents etc. That is the true spirit of the United States. It is not the governments job to provide babysitting.

    In 1963 when I was in 6th grade we were taught that communist and socialist countries wanted to influence kids at a much earlier age. Well, here we are.

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    David (Mon Jan 03 10:29:17 2011)

    One last thought. One of the rallying cries of the liberals is that it takes a village to raise a child. If you follow that cry 4 year old kindergarten makes sense.

    I disagree with that "cry" however. It takes a family to raise a child.

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    David (Mon Jan 03 10:33:18 2011)

    Sometimes it's hard to get arms around a subject, but I'll give this a try. If the State funds 4K more liberally than required by actual costs, thus bribing school districts to do what they otherwise might not do, that is a good thing because more moms can join the workforce, pay taxes, and enrich the coffers of state government. That's a win-win for schools, moms, and governments. The only logical next step is to engage in 3K, then 2K, and finally, let's move kids directly from the maternity ward to the hands of government. Why give moms the chance to bond with their kids? That only makes it more difficult to steep them in progressive thinking in the schools.

    However, let's make the silly assumption for a moment that the purpose of schools is to benefit kids. Dollars aside, kids do not do better in the hands of teachers and caregivers. They fair better in the hands of real parents.

    Yes, government monopoly education has to have a starting point; for now, let's keep it at K or grade one. Leave earlier education in the hands of parents who can, if they wish, make private arrangements for assistance.

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Ronald Zahn (Mon Jan 03 10:39:13 2011)

    Thank's for posting this Jo, I also received additional information from Rich I'd Like to share:

    I would like to add a post note if you would, that is not in the original letter since your readers may not have access to it.

    1. Green Bay 4 th grade reading scores have dropped steadily from 81 % to the 72 % during the past 10 years. ( full day K works, Right?)

    2. So what does the State want to do(?), they want to change the testing methods ( WKCE)

    3. Green Bay per Student cost is $ 11,800 approximately when you include Local and Federal revenue.

    4. Local Taxpayers have no voice in the decision to employ 4K. It is the School Board who decides

    5. These same school boards complain of a lack of adequate classrooms being available. (causing Referendums ?)



    I believe seeing the above allows the reader to have a better understanding of part of the whole picture

    My Best

    Rich


    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    James M Murphy (Mon Jan 03 11:02:29 2011)

    There is an alternative -- though I expect that school teachers will object -- and that is online tutoring. Difficult for 4-year-olds because they can't yet read, but certainly it would be good to supplement the older kid's education. AND get them attuned to working with computers at an early age (beyond playing games).

    I've looked at this Kaplan Tutoring for my 8-year-old granddaughter but when you search on Kaplan fraud the results are not encouraging (they lock in the kids to contracts).

    But perhaps a state-sponsored effort could work.

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Jack Lohman (Mon Jan 03 11:16:12 2011)

    Dean
    Your comment is extremely misleading, both in content, and presentation.
    As an engineer, I deal with facts and the facts are that costs are greaater than your concept. For example, if you look at first year 4K costs, the State only pays 1/3 of their normal 2/3'rds funding. This means the State pays a total of 22 % of the amount entitled to each student. In Green Bay where they had about 950 4K students in year one, the local taxpayers forked over 78 % of the bill (950 x .6 x 9,900 x 78%)or 4.4 Million Dollars.
    This is hardly a pitance as you outlined in an incorrect assumption, and a far greater cost to individual home owners and Taxpayers

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Rich Carlstedt (Mon Jan 03 11:58:03 2011)

    Jack, You make a serious mistake when you state that "it has been proven that pre-school has increased the education level of kids ".
    May I ask your source ?
    Did you discount the fact that some of these erroneous studies used Grant Money? Thats like asking an Oil Company to study energy solutions. I am sure you would question that validity ?
    How about real world results ?
    Lets look at Reading scores when kids went from half day to full day K .
    Surely the effect of greater exposure would yield improvement ?
    Well, if we look at page 7 of the WKCE (Statewide standard tests) for Green Bay (Sept/2010) we see that reading in 4 th grade has diminished steadily from a score of 81 to 73 since 2001.
    This durng a period when "full day " exposure should have improved the results.
    Will you project a jump is reading ability in the future ?
    In this day of government spending being out of control, it is imperative that educational funding be placed in programs that work. Those that do not must be withdrawn .
    I find it interesting you mentioned the shortage of skills and immigration, is this not the result of school failure ?

    In engineering, "failure analysis" involves looking at what you did wrong, not adding more trinkets to the product. Only in Education, are all solutions " more money" , and no analysis ever made of the cause.
    That is the problem !

    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    Rich Carlstedt (Mon Jan 03 12:25:56 2011)

    Hey, everyone, watch the online video "Stupid in America"--very revealing!
    fox cities news, appleton, wi
    emily matthews (Mon Jan 03 15:59:52 2011)




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